In continuing the celebration of the 10 year anniversary of THE PAWN, here’s the last interview transcript from Crime View TV, featuring Patrick Bowers and a comment from Jake Vanderveld, FBI Profiler.
Crime View Primetime
EPISODE 465, Partition 2 of 3
TITLE: A Killer Apprehended
Air Date June 16, 2007—20:00 ET
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DETECTIVE SAMAHA, ST. LOUIS POLICE DEPARTMENT: We’re confident we have the right man. We’ve appreciated the help of the FBI, especially agent Jake Vanderveld, on this case, but it was good old-fashioned police work from the fine members of the St. Louis Police Department working in conjunction with the Glen Carbon Sheriff’s Department that broke this case open. We’ll have more to report later.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JORDAN WEATHERS, HOST: Welcome back to Crime View, I’m Jordan Weathers. As you saw a moment ago, at a press conference earlier today, Detective Samaha announced that police have apprehended a suspect in the Glen Carbon Killings. Over the last five months at least seven women and one man have been brutally slaughtered in the suburban St. Louis area. Police believe the killings were all the work of one man. And now they think they know who it is: 25-year-old Adama Muhammed Jamar’s DNA has been found on three of the victims, and he has confessed to at least one killing.
Our guest tonight is author of two books on criminal investigation and has taught courses at the FBI academy in Quantico, Virginia. Patrick Bowers, thank you for joining us.
BOWERS: Thanks, Jordan.
WEATHERS: Dr. Bowers, you were on our show last April and predicted that the killer would be from east St. Louis, and as it turns out, the man the police now have in custody lived with his cousin in the very section of the city you identified. How did you know for certain that’s where the killer would be found?
BOWERS: I didn’t know for certain. I work in the realm of probability. That’s where the evidence pointed.
WEATHERS: But I’m just impressed that you were able to pinpoint the apartment he lived in based only on the locations of the murders. That’s amazing.
BOWERS: Mostly it’s based on the way all of us—the way people—relate to our environment. We prefer activities and routines that save us time or money, ones that are convenient for us, or that help us reach our goals.
WEATHERS: And that led you to the killer?
BOWERS: I only started working this case a few weeks ago. The team already had—
WEATHERS: But it was only after you joined them that they were able to crack the case.
BOWERS: We all worked together. It was a cooperative effort.
WEATHERS: But you’re saying killers, they follow these patterns too?
BOWERS: For the most part, yes. They tend to abduct victims and leave bodies in locations they’re most familiar with. That way they can choose places they know are isolated and they can escape more easily. But also, they don’t want to commit their crime too close to their homes or they might draw too much attention to themselves. So there’s this balance between familiarity and precaution. What I try to do—what environmental criminologists try to do—is we look at these factors, and a number of other ones, and then try to narrow down the most likely location that the murderer uses as his home base.
WEATHERS: It’s almost scary. As if you can predict the future.
BOWERS: I try to stay away from predicting the future. I’m much better with investigating what happened in the past.
WEATHERS: In your book Time of the Crime, you have a chapter on “The Emerging Science of Geospatial Criminal Investigation.” You write, “Even the pioneers in the field have said that behavioral profiling is not entirely scientific. A dozen different profilers might render a dozen different opinions. We need more science and fewer opinions if we are going to regain the public’s trust in criminal investigation.”
BOWERS: On December 21, 1989, Agent Ault testified before a Congressional Investigation Committee that profiling is “half science, half art form.” I think we should lean more in the direction of science. We’re not artists, we’re investigators.
WEATHERS: We have some video here of an interview one of your fellow agents did earlier today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAKE VANDERVELD, FBI PROFILER: I’m glad I could be of help on this case. Just as I thought, the killer was a male between 20 and 30 who had poor social skills. He’d flunked out of college and was filled with rage after his wife left him six months ago. He transferred that rage to an intense hatred against all women—a typical pattern we find in many disorganized killers. That’s why he mutilated them, that’s why he lost control, that’s why he got caught. This case is a good example of how the profilers at the FBI are able to work together with local law enforcement to apprehend killers.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WEATHERS: Dr. Bowers, I understand Special Agent Vanderveld dismissed your analysis of the case. That he was upset you were brought in to help the investigators last month.
BOWERS: You’d need to talk with him about that. I can’t really speak to his comments concerning the case.
WEATHERS: Actually, I have a few of them right here. He told CNN that your comments on this show last April were “premature and speculative,” and that environmental criminology is still “in its infancy and can’t be trusted yet as a legitimate investigative tool,” and that you often act like a “rogue crusader trying to spread unrealistic optimism in its use.” Those are pretty harsh words. How do you respond?
BOWERS: He’s certainly welcome to his opinions. This is an emerging field, but it’s based solidly on science and logic rather than conjecture and gut instincts.
WEATHERS: So you’re saying Agent Vanderveld’s approach is just conjecture?
BOWERS: Jordan, I’d rather discuss the case than my colleague’s opinions about me. I’m not here to criticize anyone else’s approach. I’m just glad we were able to assist with the investigation and that, together, it was enough to help the police narrow down their search and apprehend a suspect.
WEATHERS: Hm. Thought-provoking comments from an expert in the field. More after this short break.
END PARTITION 2 OF 3.
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